<html><head></head><body><div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:small;"><div><div>Hi Brian,</div></div><div>I fed the board w/ the OTA output. I also used the Finalizer during the Pipeline performance. I was monitoring the board (not the computer output, don't know if that matters).</div><div><br></div><div>I think Tuesday's pipeline performance in at risk, so stay tuned, I'll let you know if it happens.</div><div><br></div><div id="yahoo_quoted_0210527059" class="yahoo_quoted"><div>On Saturday, March 11, 2017, 1:16:55 PM EST, Brian R Sennett <bsennett@mit.edu> wrote:</div><div><div id="yiv1673692238"><html><head></head><div>
Hey Mike,
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<div class="yiv1673692238">Will you be mixing Fossy Jaw on Tuesday? If so I’ll catch you then and quickly try to reproduce the sound. What were you using as your audio source into the board?</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">We can also do what you mentioned to test the patch/cabling. I’ll hold off on getting an RA for the Finalizer until then.</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">What you said about in-the-box mixing makes more sense to me now. I can definitely see how we can use both HW and SW to mix live, and I totally get how PT presets can make things easier. We have all the I/O out of the MOTU on the patch bay, so
if you select the right I/O you can put an effect on any channel and patch it in as an insert. You can also pretty easily use Ozone as a replacement for the Finalizer… we could set up templates with the I/O already configured so all you have to do is patch.
Sweet. </div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">I’ll keep you posted on my thoughts re: computers.</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">Cheers,</div>
<div class="yiv1673692238">Brian</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">On Mar 7, 2017, at 7:03 PM, Michael Reed <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv1673692238" ymailto="mailto:mnr102@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mnr102@yahoo.com">mnr102@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">Hi Brian,</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">Following your procedures I could not get the finalizer to feedback. I was able to produce 2 bad sounds, but they're both explainable:</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">1) if you drive the inputs of the finalizer too hard, the monitored signal distorts. (i.e. drive the Scraft faders up too high). It distorts b/c the Scraft insert returns specify a max of 20dBu. The Finalizer is capable of 22dBu of output,
so if it's driven hard, it's output will exceed the Scraft insert return spec.</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">2) if you have the Finalizer acting in the compression regime, and you remove the input to the Finalizer (i.e. yank out a Finalizer input patchcord) it oscillates loudly. I'd guess the digital lookahead logic oscillates w/o a reference signal).</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">Neither of these are regions or use cases we should be entering into.</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">I DO still find the Left channel a bit quieter than the Right. That could the Finalizer itself, or the cabling. Next time I'm down, I'll pull the finalizer out of the rack & connect it's input XLRs to the output XLRs (truly bypassing the Finalizer),
which will allow me to figure out whether the Finalizer cabling has some insertion loss that's the cause of the balance problem.</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">We'd been talking about some day perhaps doing "in-the-box" mixing... You'd asked some good questions:</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">If we moved to in-the-box mixing, all pre-amps are still relevant. (i.e you can't get into an A/D w/o first going through a pre-amp). The other outboard gear is also still relevant & can be patched unto the Protools signal chain to apply effects.</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">I find a Protools system easier to learn upon, because templates can be made, all routing can be "discovered" or reset.</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">On Sunday, March 5, 2017, 1:46:12 PM EST, Brian R Sennett <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv1673692238" ymailto="mailto:bsennett@mit.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:bsennett@mit.edu">bsennett@mit.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">Hey Mike,
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<div class="yiv1673692238">No worries, it was quick to reproduce the problem and shoot an email over to TC. I also noticed that even without the noise, the Right channel was consistently lower than the left. If I had to take a guess, I’d say some op-amp or
other analog component in the right channel analog input or output stage is failing. I’ll be sure to mention the balance issue.</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">To reproduce the problem:</div>
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<ol class="yiv1673692238MailOutline"><li class="yiv1673692238">Patch (as “normal”) the Finalizer as an insert in the Soundcraft main L/R bus</li><li class="yiv1673692238">Set Soundcraft master faders about halfway, well below 0 dB but enough to pass signal through</li><li class="yiv1673692238">Set Finalizer input and output gains around 0 dB and other settings more or less flat, so that signal passes without clipping the input/output as shown on meters (I think the problem will come up with any set of settings but these
are the most “normal” and don’t even really get the compressor to kick in)</li><li class="yiv1673692238">Get some audio going through the Soundcraft main bus (I like to patch the OTA Feed into a mixer channel or two but you can set up a mic)</li><li class="yiv1673692238">Increase level on Soundcraft master faders until noise occurs in R channel; Finalizer meters will indicate clipping in R channel.</li><li class="yiv1673692238">Bring down faders, unpatch Finalizer and bring up faders again to verify noise never comes in even with faders at max.</li></ol>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">You have some interesting points re: outboard/inthebox. For us, it’s about balancing power, cost, and usability. The benefit of working with outboard gear to create a live mix and working inthebox for mastering/production is that
you can quickly and easily get a live mix going with as much/little processing as you want, without having to work with Pro Tools, which makes it easier for less experienced engineers to get a decent-sounding mix. </div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">On the other hand, buying a new Mac Pro would be less expensive by far than getting close to its power in outboard gear.</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">Here’s the thing about computers. The TBC has allocated me $3K to buy new computers for the station as of last June, which I still haven’t spent. I was planning on buying iMacs for the office, but there’s no reason to wait for the
fiscal year to turn over if we want to spend some of that money on a DAW. Plus, the “old” mac pro is plenty beefy enough for an office computer, so we’d get some value out of that. (The new-ish Mac Pro is so beautiful, and really not much more expensive than
a few pieces of outboard gear, but it’d blow our $3K budget.)</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">One more thing - we have already (recently) put a good chunk of both of our time and the station’s money into extensive outboard gear plus the opportunity to grow (with the Lunchboxes). How would that jive with a decision to move
almost entirely inthebox? Perhaps we could set up I/O so that it’s relatively easy to work inthebox when desired but keep a healthy assortment of outboard gear?</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">I hope those points are helpful. Unfortunately I’m not a good source for opinions on using this stuff since I don’t get to use the setup that often; I would rely heavily on your thoughts plus those of Craig and perhaps our new engineers
(I’m particularly interested in hearing if Graham has opinions on this since he has some studio experience prior to WMBR).</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">Thanks,</div>
<div class="yiv1673692238">Brian</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">On Mar 5, 2017, at 8:41 AM, Michael Reed <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv1673692238" ymailto="mailto:mnr102@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mnr102@yahoo.com">mnr102@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">I had a quick look at what else is on the market. Surprisingly, not much that's affordable: realtime hardware mastering was always a small market, and is shrinking as more digital consoles come into use.</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">Drawmer had the only solution I found, and it has a much more user-friendly interface:
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv1673692238" target="_blank" href="http://www.fullcompass.com/prod/262309-Drawmer-1973">
http://www.fullcompass.com/prod/262309-Drawmer-1973</a></div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">That said, the Drawer's expensive (as was the Finalizer). The capabilities of plugins are amazing (e.g. a multiband compressor is usually a free plugin w/ any DAW software), and instead of spending $1.5K on replacing the Finalizer,
maybe we should consider replacing the 10-year old Mac Pro w/ more CPU power & then do all of our work "in the box".</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">So, I guess my conclusion is: let's get the Finalizer fixed (let's state that it has a balance problem as well as a feedback problem) to get us through the fiscal year, and talk about a computer upgrade for next year. What do you
guys think?</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">(Brian: how do I reproduce the feedback problem? I haven't yet experienced it.)</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">On Sunday, March 5, 2017, 8:02:49 AM EST, Michael Reed <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv1673692238" ymailto="mailto:mnr102@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mnr102@yahoo.com">mnr102@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">Hi All,</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">Brian, sorry I missed the original report & your question to me. Always feel free to ping me again if yr not getting a response. Finally, thx for debugging.</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">I've had a different (perhaps related) problem w/ the Finalizer lately. At the same time this problem 1st arose, the balance of the Finalizer went bad. Right channel starts out much quieter than left. If I jiggle the Finalizer
patchcords, volume of Right channel comes up a bit, but still is quieter than left. This has been driving me nuts. I have a feeling something's limiting the output of the L channel.</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">I've already replaced the power supply in the finalizer once.. about 5 years ago. We can definitely do w/o the finalizer if it's damaged or we want to send it out. It's just a Mastering device, and you can always throw a stereo
compressor across that buss & get a similar effect (but w/ no separate control for the 3 frequency bands). Let me look & see what else is available out there now. We might want to replace it at this point (for something easier to use, to enjoy more recent
technology, and cuz it's old).</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">Thx,</div>
<div class="yiv1673692238">Mike</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">On Saturday, March 4, 2017, 10:18:10 PM EST, Brian R Sennett via c-control <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv1673692238" ymailto="mailto:c-control@wmbr.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:c-control@wmbr.org">c-control@wmbr.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">Hi folks,
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<div class="yiv1673692238">I stopped in today and verified the problem with the Finalizer. I also power-cycled the unit, and adjusted the settings (some of them were in strange positions, see below) and those did not fix the issue.</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">TC Electronic recommends a few authorized service centers. I emailed the nearest one (in NY) to see if we can ship it out to them for repair.</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">Some folks in training might wonder how to “normalize” C-Control when it’s not nearly as simple as the other control rooms. I’ve gone over some general best practices, but here are some things that I found that I think we would all
consider “out of normal”:</div>
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<ul class="yiv1673692238MailOutline"><li class="yiv1673692238">Finalizer: lost clock (clock source set to digital input which does not exist); input gain set very low</li><li class="yiv1673692238">Gain knobs: not zero’ed out, except for those for the TC and Lexicon effects returns, which should be set and forgotten</li><li class="yiv1673692238">Pan knobs: not zero’ed out</li><li class="yiv1673692238">Group send switches (L/R, 1/2, 3/4): not set as expected in the first 7 channels for drums. What’s expected is channels 1 through 7 set to group 1-2; channels 3 through 7 also set to group 3-4; all other channels set to group L-R.</li><li class="yiv1673692238">Power to lower Lunchbox (“A”, mic preamps) left on</li><li class="yiv1673692238">One channel of 166 compressor used for a non-drum channel (typically both 166 channels are used for the group 3-4 insert)</li></ul>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">Please let me know if I’m incorrect about any of the above. Ryan aptly described the process as “normalization by consensus”, so as long as we can reach a consensus about what’s “normal” and not, we should be good.</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">I would also say that bypassing all EQ’s and zero-ing all Aux sends (headphones and effects) is part of normal, but I don’t know if y’all are as picky about that. Those things were also out of whack today, but I didn’t correct them.</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">Best,</div>
<div class="yiv1673692238">Brian</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">On Feb 25, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Brian R Sennett <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv1673692238" ymailto="mailto:bsennett@mit.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:bsennett@mit.edu">bsennett@mit.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div class="yiv1673692238">Hi all,<br clear="none" class="yiv1673692238">
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Some time ago recently, we had issues where a ringing “feedback” tone would appear through the main output of the board occasionally, or intermittent low-frequency sounds would appear around the dbx 166 compressor.<br clear="none" class="yiv1673692238">
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The second problem seems to be solvable by wiggling patch cables in the patch bay - the ones that connect the 166 insert. This is probably due to bad patch points, but may just be dirty contacts (the 166 is usually patched in so there may have been time for
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The first problem is a different one than the second - during training yesterday I unpatched the 166 so I didn’t have to deal with it, but Ryan found that the “feedback” sound was still present in the main Right board channel when the level is raised past a
certain point. Unpatching the Finalizer from the main L/R insert solved the problem.<br clear="none" class="yiv1673692238">
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So, I conclude that the Finalizer is at fault.<br clear="none" class="yiv1673692238">
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Mike, do you have any thoughts on this? Can we send it to TC for repair? Can we manage to get along without it in place for a little while?<br clear="none" class="yiv1673692238">
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Thanks,<br clear="none" class="yiv1673692238">
Brian</div>
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